Did I violate this girl at a concert?
Using a throw away because I feel really shitty about myself. Let me know if there is a better place to post this. I’m a 17 year old male, and attended my first music festival this weekend. It’s a longer story and has some context. It was the second day of the festival I started getting more into it, and moving up toward the front of the crowd. As I got more up there, things got more tight and there’s more grinding and dancing in the crowd. I’m a virgin with social anxiety and the farthest I’ve been sexually was an awkward handjob from my 8th grade girlfriend when I was 14, I just haven’t really sought after girls too actively, and only really hit on people after a few drinks at a party, but I always try to respect other people’s boundaries.
So I was way up towards the front of this crowd, I had just finished smoking a huge joint, and was pretty wasted, and only there to enjoy the music. Out of nowhere this beautiful girl who was at least college age comes out of nowhere and started aggressively grinding on me. At first I had no idea what was happening, I’m 6’1 and in pretty good shape, and can pass as 19 or 20, but this girl still seemed out of my league. I put my hands on her hips and then she took them and put my hand on her ass while still grinding. THis went on for 2 songs and then she vanished into the crowd (she could have gone anywhere, I was wasted). Now, this was a new and exciting experience for me, and knowing a girl that hot would have any intrest in me was a real confidence booster.
Fast forward to later that night, this is where I think I fucked up. I was at another set that same night and was super pumped to see this artist perform. I got way up toward the front of the crowed, and was completely wasted. The set starts and a beautiful girl in front of me started to rub on me a little, but it’s not a full grind. I move in a little closer and she didn’t move away, so I figured I was golden. Having very little clue what the etiquette is in this sort of situation, and my only experience with this sort of dancing being the one a few hours earlier, I grabbed her butt. I didn’t keep my hand there, but she whispered to the girl next to her who I assume to be her friend and the other girl gave me a look that seemed like “WTF”. I backed up as far as I could and gave her room. I was pretty embarrassed at this point, I felt bad, and at that moment I had no intention of trying to dance with anyone else, and wanted to cut my losses. Nope. The same girl who I was dancing with earlier slowly backed over to me and started brushing her butt on me again. Wasted me thought “oh, I suck at taking messages even sober, I guess she must not have minded after all and I just misinterpreted her friends look” retrospective sober me thinks “oh, this girl is so cool to understand I misread the situation, hands are too far but we can still dance”. After another minute of her dancing on me again I grabbed her butt again. This time, she turns back and looks at me. I, desperately trying to read this girl ask “is that ok??” and all she said “no”, I replied “I’m so sorry!” and pushed my way away from her in the crowd and tried to continue enjoying the show.
Honestly I feel really shitty. I go to a small school so I don’t interact with many pretty girls who aren’t my friends, and I really don’t know how to talk to them or interact with them in certain situations. I’m awkward socially (especially when high), and didn’t even really plan on dancing that night, and I wish I had just straight up asked if she wanted to dance. I’m not normally comfortable touching someone I don’t know, but for whatever reason I thought it was the proper next step. Did I sexually assault this girl?
MyVoreThrowaway: I think you need to give yourself a break. I’m a woman, and have spent a lot of time in mosh pits. I wouldn’t call this sexual assault, and I think you did good by asking this woman, “Is that OK?” She said, “No” and you apologised.
However, you mentioned you were completely wasted. Try to bear in mind in future that in that state, your judgement is impaired, so you could misinterpret movements or facial expressions in the already-crazy atmosphere of the concert crowd. It’s a difficult environment in which to get a clear message, unless someone is literally guiding your hands on to them, like you described with the first woman you met.
StitchersGonnaStitch: The fact you feel shitty about this tells me you’re better than many. And the fact you realize that was not ok makes me think you’re smarter than many.
I know this is kindov a touchy situation… But personally, I think you handled it better than most by asking and then apologizing. At least you made it clear you were wrong. Everyone reacts differently to these situations, but I just laughed when something like this happened to me while I was still in high school. But I’m kindov the type of person who doesn’t take any shit but doesn’t give a shit about much either.
Best I can say is beating yourself up for ever is not gonna make her feel any differently now. It would have been way better had it not happened, but we’re humans and we mess up. We need to learn from these mistakes. I really hope this girl is ok, but at the same time, the way you feel won’t help her at this point. I really hope I’m explaining what I mean right… If this comes across as douchy or insensitive for this girl, it’s not my intention at all.
Ref0rmed_L0ser: No, I think it was just a mistake. You misread the situation. You’re young and inexperienced. Shit happens.
Cpl_DILLIGAF: Generally when a woman rubs her ass on your dick the assumption of ass grabbing is left wide open, did she ask you if it was ok to run her ass on your dick, probably not. Let it go.
StitchersGonnaStitch: I really love all the relies here. It’s nice to see people can still be empathetic. 🙂
Oksus69: You are not in the wrong. She initiated semi-sexual contact with you. If she was really that uncomfortable, she would not have started grinding on you again. I know I wouldn’t continue rubbing my ass on a dude if I felt violated!
LarryDavidAlways: It’s generally a pretty good rule of thumb to not grab women in a sexually suggestive manner unless they explicitly tell you it’s okay.
peachiestpink: Learn from this. It is good that you are clearly upset and distraught over this, so please let this be the last time. People are gonna comment some shitty, BS stuff, yes, worse things can and do happen, but yes, that is sexual assault.
The problem with doing something, even a little bit or cautiously, is that someone still cannot consent to that. You’ve gotta ask. You can’t put your junk on her and see what happens, because that is still assault. You can’t grab her ass and see where it goes from there, because that is assault. That person can not consent to you doing that.
I know everyone makes it seem like talking about and asking for consent is a mood ruiner, but it doesn’t have to be and, honestly, regardless, it’s better than assaulting someone. You could have whispered in her ear if you could dance with her, if she said yes, proceed. Then after a bit ask if it’s okay if you dance closer, or if she wants to get more handsy, or flat out ask if it’s cool if you guys grind. Even like “how do you feel about me grabbing your ass?” Sometimes stuff is always gonna feel awkward or you’re not gonna be able to find a way to say it that’s cool and slick. That’s fine. That’s how humans are. You can continue on and laugh it off and it is quickly forgotten and/or not a Big Huge Thing.
You can’t go back in time and change anything. It’s good that you’re realizing on your own that this was assault and that you are worried and upset over it. Let that guide you. At least let something come out of this, and let that be that you learn about assault and consent and how to act in the future. Women are beings with feelings and comfort and discomfort just like you. Just because you want to grab her ass does not mean she wants you to, and there is literally no way to know that other than asking. You cannot just hope for the best, you can’t read body language or minds, you have to ask.
Also, don’t wallow in this. You can’t do anything about it other than learning and changing and not doing it again. Let that be it. Remember it and learn and change, feel bad when you think about it, but don’t wallow in this forever. Just don’t do it anymore
85chellepo: I wouldn’t worry, just remember others may suffer with social anxiety too. Dont stress too much, you stopped when you realised it wasn’t welcome.
SoraShrine: I wouldn’t worry about it. Of course, grabbing a girls butt without her permission isn’t cool. But like you said, you had difficulty reading the situation. So, it was a learning expierence. You said you have a lot of anxiety, so you’re probably overthinking it. Some girls, like the first girl you mentioned, love dancing like that, but a lot don’t. Really, it’s probably better just to assume girls don’t want that unless they REALLY show you otherwise. Just next time use a little better judgement. But overall don’t overthink it!
alcxgrcy: you made a mistake and apologized. next time just dance with her and ask “is it okay if I touch your ass?”
shrimpossible: Lawyer here. At least in the U.S., there’s no way you could ever be convicted of sexual assault on these facts. The body part you touched she’d already ground into your crotch by choice. Ignore the laypeople here telling you otherwise; you committed no sexual assault.
linny88: I wouldn’t call it assault…that’s steep. But, yes, you overstepped a strangers’ boundaries. Getting handsy with someone you have never spoken to is never a good idea, unless they explicitly tell you to (or position you to). If you’re in a grey area between “Yes, please touch me”, and “That is not okay, don’t touch me”, just assume it’s a no-go.
Don’t beat yourself up too much about it. You didn’t have bad intentions, you were driven by uncertainty and there “being a chance”. Your bad, but not the end of the world.
Moving forward, keep your hands to yourself.
PeteBogg: It seems like you did well with the girl who was aggressively grinding on you. And while everyone agrees that yes means yes it is more common that people use visual and physical clues about consent. But…
Grabbing someone’s butt without consent is generally classified as unwanted sexual touching, a form of sexual assault. So yes, both times the girl was unhappy about your touching you were assaulting her. Don’t do it again! You are taking a big risk and you are being a jerk.
Especially if you have trouble picking up on social clues you need to be more sure about whether you actually have consent by asking… and getting a YES before touching. You can make the asking sexy by including a compliment and then asking… “My god you are gorgeous and the way you dance is turning me on… mind if I get closer?” if yes then move in and maybe ask for greater access later if things are going well.
It is important to understand that in general, all men over-estimate the amount of interest that women have in them. They go from “she smiled at me” directly to “she wants to fuck me” without a pause. This is a big problem. Drugs and alcohol make this problem WAY WAY WORSE.
So you are young and it is great that you are asking this question. It will be even better if you learn from your mistake. However, I want to suggest that you don’t be too hard on yourself. We all make mistakes and the point is to learn from them. You are today older and wiser than you were at the concert. Good luck!
imagoinf2fu: she clearly wanted it and went looking for it, she probably actually wanted more